[The following conversations are very personal to me. But they demonstrate the kind of negotiations we all do with the Leapers regarding our new incarnations.]
Cathee: It's high golden aspen season. And it's warm. My walk-ins and I are happy. We went through a crisis yesterday, and Johnny reframed his life as "this is a new life." He's still connected with Carolyn, but almost as if she were in a past life. I'm wanting to know these guys better. John how did you happen to know that Johnny was in distress when you pulled him out of his parallel world?
John: I was a guide to Johnny after I died.
When I was alive, I didn't know much about metaphysics like you do. I didn't live by it. I might not have known about parallel lives, even if I had studied metaphysics at that point. But when my plane went down and I died . . . I don't know how it is for everybody else. But things opened up immediately. I immediately knew what to do on the other side. It was like remembering how it works. Carolyn, Lauren and I kind of got up and brushed ourselves off. And as I've told you, you were there. I mean it, Cathee.
At that point, it's like your guides come and say, "You go there, you go there." It's like walking into a really bright room. It's almost blinding. For you I think it'll be different, because you're used to it from your ghost clearings. I was trying to get my bearings and look around at this strange country. And realize I was dead. I mean, it was like, "oh shit."
Cathee: Oh, hello. A yearling elk is on the path. OK, so who gets to use the path, here?
That was sweet. An elk was blocking my path, who came towards me off the path, and passed me a little bit to the side. It was nice that I didn't have to go around him. He's close to the path behind me now. Sweeet. Thank you, universe.
Speaking of studs, John. You just attracted one.
John: I know it's kind of strange for me to talk the whole time. You usually don't like to converse all the way through the woods. But I have so much I want to tell you, Cathee.
Cathee: It's beautiful. Even the underbrush is yellow-green now. I suppose these plants are blueberry. Ooh, I wonder if they're fruiting up yet.
John: So Cathee, when I say "you were there," now you understand more. But when I first told you that, you didn't get it, that you could be there and be here at the same time. And although I've told you that a parallel self of yours was a spirit guide to me, you were there. I swear you were there. It's like how Johnny's Carolyn has been here and talked to us, even though she's still hanging on in the body somewhere else.
So that was our meeting, and these meetings are no small things. There are many probabilities open of what you can do next when there's a big event like death. But sometimes it isn't until you meet the people who would be involved in this or that path, that you and the Leapers choose your course.
Speaking of paths, that elk was going to meet you. He was on the only path, and it wasn't theoretical. You could hear him kind of snorting. You could feel him, and at some level I think you even smelled him. You were hyper aware of each other's presence. And you were reading a great deal of information about each other in very subtle cues, sensing "what's our relationship?" You sent him love even though you know it's rut time, and he was likely to be pretty ornery. But he was nice, and got off the path for you when you asked him to. I was quite impressed, Cathee. Then he went back to it after you passed him, just from what we could see. You're pretty good. He understood what you wanted, and he did it. He took his time, but. . . . You told him you were too lazy to get off the path and cut through the woods, and he said, "OK. I'm not too lazy myself," as far as I could read this conversation. (laughs) And he's the one with the antlers to worry about getting hung up in the trees, although he's just a little yearling with little antlers. But that's how it goes, really.
So we had an encounter with Johnny's Carolyn a few days ago. She's been greeting you for months, now and then. You know how she talked to the local land deva about incarnating here, and there was a question of whether Carolyn could imagine living in Colorado with no night life but stars, at least where you live and how you live. (Although, she could go to Denver in the evening if she wanted to.) There was a real sense of checking it all out.
Cathee: There are some pretty daisies. They're all ears. They're eavesdropping.
John: Anyway, this is also what happened when I died. And remember how, Cathee, you thought she was kind of bold that day you were out in the back yard and she talked to you telepathically. She said she'd been thinkin' about it, and she really thought the best path for her would be to leap over to where we are. You know how the Leapers have always said they'd like to help us leap consciously, and that they take our views and our wants into consideration in deciding where we're going to leap. This has always been true, as far as I know—it's just that usually we don't remember participating. But I think we do. And it's partly participation, and it's partly just them like putting two people together and seeing what happens. Seeing if they resonate. Seeing if they seem to hit it off. I think it's probably pretty hard to tell until the actual moment, because everything is so creative.
Cathee: These daisies that have gone to seed are gorgeous. All the daisies say, "Go on, go on." I think they're the ones I talked to last time I was here. Everybody wants us to get to the lily pond.
Ooh, my gosh. Here's the aspen. Wow. OK, major aspen. I think this is why we do most of our deep talks in the bathtime instead of on the trail. It's so gorgeous.
John: So there we were, among others. And of course at that point, when you're in the astral, these meetings don't take getting on a plane. They can be very quick. You can go through twenty candidates for "what do I do next?" And you don't have to pick just one. You can pick several different parallels. But again, it's both bigger than you and it's not bigger than you. You and the Leapers check out the possibilities together, and see what you resonate with obviously. And I would imagine sometimes they think you should go a different way than you think you should go. In my case, it was real clear what I wanted to do. And here I am. I guess I could look at how many other parallel selves of me did something different, and what, from that point of decision.
Your parallel self who had been my guide before I died was there very much through all the meetings with others. She probably helped choose what the possibilities would be, in fact. And she was losing her job, you know? (laughs) So see, you can ask your parallel self everything about me. She probably would have quite a different perspective than I do. (laughs) Or maybe you shouldn't ask her.
Cathee: Why didn't I guide you better?
John: Well, I didn't always follow her advice, Cathee. I think with the major scrapes I got in, I did not follow her advice. So, you did your best—or she did. In fact, I think it would be cool for you to try to talk to her sometime. You've talked a lot about how my being a part of your "we," and guiding you in the time between my death and my walking in, was a set-up for our coming together. And of course, you've got the proof. You've got many hours of channeling in which it now seems like it was me talking. How much did your parallel self that was guiding me most of my life nudge me, to get me into a good position for this walk-in to take place? I'll betcha almost as much, if not more, than I nudged you.
Cathee: Another stop for another aspen grove. This is so beautiful! But we've got some lilies, or at least pads, waiting.
John: Anyway, in that moment it was, "Oh my gosh, I'm dead. What now?" I'd heard all my life that people go to heaven. But it was told to me outright that I had unusual options, because of the way I died. And part of it was just these times. Adventurer that I am, I was especially intrigued with the possibilities that meant I could explore some territory that normally hasn't been explored, at least with you and me. (We've explored a lot in other incarnations together.) Because I could walk in, in a very conscious way.
It wasn't like I had to think about it. It was so obviously perfect that the next step was to walk into you. I don't even know how to find the words to express how obviously perfect it was. Just in an instant, "Of course, that's where I'm going." And now I have no regrets, although I've told you that at times I have questioned. Especially that first month, which was really hard, Cathee. Clunk. I'd had a very fast-moving, exciting life, and there I was suddenly nursing a screaming sore tooth, watching your body fight me. It was like, OK, so nobody let the body in on the decision, I guess.
Before my death, I'd had my moments of insight when I was rushing around doing two million things. You read my biographies, and you go, how did you have time to do all that? And I wondered after I came in, what does she do all day? I thought we should be able to get five books done the first year, and onto the next thing. But I have come to truly appreciate that someone like me could not possibly have had a successful walk-in experience like we're having if the situation had been reversed. I probably just would have gotten very sick and died or something if you'd walked into me! (laughs) I don't think I could have handled it, even if I would have been aware that it was going on. And I probably wouldn't have been.
So it's worked out really well that you probe and savor everything. I'm finally even now appreciating how you have to be able to tune into such extremely subtle impulses to ascertain who's talking, and what they're saying to you. And who's about to walk in (laughs) if we don't want that. Like the other day on the trail when you felt dizzy and lay down, and the big vortex opened between Johnny's parallel that was in crisis and ours. A lot of people on Johnny's parallel would have loved to have just come right on in. That vortex was so open, and you were so open. Which I understand you have to be, in order to be able to sense what's going on. But Johnny and I were so concerned. We practically had our swords drawn like Archangel Michael is depicted, like, "Don't enter her. She's ours, go away. You've gotta do your own leap." Seriously, it was almost that bad. So I think it's a good thing you have us. And I think you do feel more solid and happy having a couple guys here to protect you. It's worked out really well.
[An elk bugles] Cathee: Oh, listen to that. Somebody else is talking.
John: Where is this pond anyway? Where was I? This is fun, Cathee.
So there we were—I and your parallel self who had been guiding me since Dad [who died when John was almost three] moved on when I was seven. I had a lot of guides, actually. I needed a lot of guides. It's like, um, OK, I was special. There were some especially powerful probabilities connected with which direction I went in any given decision. I certainly was groomed, both by live people and by dead people—I mean guides, whether they were dead people or not. And nature beings as well. I had a lot of nature beings working with me. And I think on some level, I would have totally understood the Leaper material while I was alive, if anybody had channeled it. It would have made perfect sense to me, because I could feel those points of decision and how important they were all along. And I could feel that I couldn't possibly live all the expectations everybody had of me. It would have taken a lot of me's to do that! There were too many good possibilities to choose from. It would have made total sense to me that I didn't have to choose just one. I mean, how can you know what's going to happen if you do this or that?
Cathee: We're at a sweet little waterfall.
John: My experience was probably like a lot of people's, in that at that moment, I got very excited about future possibilities of directions I could take. And of course, I'd known you as a guide. But I think I'd also been aware of you, even who you are. I guess you're on a new parallel with me walking in, but I think I was aware that you were alive when I was growing up as well.
It's probably quite common to be so excited about new possibilities that it makes dying not that hard. Because you're immediately—at least in my case—going wow, what next? But then, after. It wasn't until after I came back in that I felt a great need to process my former life from the perspective of being down in.
You've read that the astral body is the emotional body, and that in the astral realm, people after death can get socked to it by their emotions. Buddhists even say that what emotional state you're in when you die determines your next life. I think that's simplistic. Heaven help us if the world were really that fragile, because look how many people die really horrible deaths. Now, it may be that that's a way of saying that your level of excitement at what's presented to you to do next is very important in what you end up doing. That I could buy. And see, I don't know what other people's experiences are. I certainly was well taken care of.
It may be that there are a lot of people who, when they first die, can't handle that light, like I was saying. That brightness. And if they haven't lived much—I mean if they haven't been out of their little two inch by two inch perspective on life—they may really shut down if Jesus doesn't come and take them away with the angels. And maybe Jesus does do that with other people. I don't know. He didn't do it with me. I got you. (laughs) I got you instead, Cathee. I'm happy with that. Very happy with that. Maybe our soul family, being a nature/human soul family, is just a little more able to roll with creation, and a little less itchy to transcend. I don't know.
How'd that sun get behind clouds and start to set so soon? I guess I'm talking so much, we aren't hiking fast. I mean, the sun's not setting but it's low in the sky, and the mountains are high in the sky.
So once I went off on this parallel, I knew that part of what I wanted to do was to get you ready for the walk-in, yes. That was very deliberate. You soon met Peter and we got to work. Where he wanted to go with this was certainly taken into consideration too.
Cathee: I think we're going to hike back by starlight if we want to stay for awhile.
John: So yes, I had a goal, definitely. It's obvious when you look back at the channelings. And I think you're always disregarding your incredible talent, Cathee. I hope that's not because, as I've said before, when I came in I didn't appreciate it enough. And now I do. Now that I'm in further, I'm in awe. Watching you from within you cope with my bringing Johnny over and dumping him in you, in us—you have handled this amazingly well, Cathee. Johnny feels the same. There are so few people who could have handled not only one walk-in, but two. And although we've had our bumps, mainly with the body, and with your thinking some of my photos in magazines are cheesy-looking. . . . (laughs). We'll let that go. Actually, I think it's pretty funny.
I think you were very nervous, understandably, that Carolyn wanted to come into you a couple days ago. (If she really did.) I mean, nothing like having a couple walk in, huh? A man and his wife from another life that you weren't even in! I think the universe is kind and draws the line, so things like that don't happen very often. But I've watched you even the last couple days, when you've had near melt-downs, where you're having a hard time with what everybody else seems to think is obviously great. I know you've had a lot of help, but I think you've done a masterful job of having your boundaries and yet being open with a lot of compassion. And also taking into consideration your triad—what we feel—and what Carolyn feels, and doing what you can without giving yourself totally away.
I think we're working it out just fine. But can you see why I wanted to tell you how these moments are huge moments of decision? In the woods the other day, it was almost like the moment of Carolyn's death, only we were deciding whether she was going to die or not. At that moment she just didn't want to be there any more. "Either death or leap me, but just don't leave me here." Very understandable. Maybe it's harder than if she had just died and had that moment of decision after death, and she wouldn't have still have been hanging out in that purgatory.
Carolyn's a brave soul. What a brave soul. She's amazing.
Cathee: We're at the pond now. There are big reflections on the lake. The lily pads are turning orangish, and kind of yellow-green. The flowers are gone, but there's still a lot of color. I was hot on the way up, but one cloud and now it's freezing. I'm really glad I have my coat.
The deva of water lily: I've been trying to reach you. You need me. I know I need you. What you are in now, multi-dimensionally, is so complex. So multi-layered, that I think even the Leapers are having trouble with keeping track of the card game, of what gets played when, where. I would guess that part of your anxiety of the last week has been in sensing that nobody knows what's going on. And I think that's an accurate perception.
Time used to move slower. It was easier to do some advance planning—put it that way. Now it's just go, go, go. Change, change, change. And it's much harder to predict whether, for instance, they can insert something back in Johnny's old parallel to not have to do all the leaping of people out. How do you know if those attempts will work until you try them? So they try out all these scenarios, and kind of play them in the head to see what would happen, is what they do. And some of the beings on the parallels in that big collective dream just freak out. Personally, I think you yourself were experiencing more anxiety the past few days than you ever should have to go through, given how willing you've been all along to go with divine will.
I wish the Leapers would explain, so I want to explain, that sometimes when they're trying to see what to do, it's like when you're daydreaming and trying to figure out what to do. Like John was just saying, sometimes you can't guess how people are going to resonate, or what's going to happen. You have to play it out. And in that sense, we're all part of the whole that plays it out. But you can feel like a separate self being bounced around.
Carolyn seemed absolutely panicked both on the trail and when you were in the tub talking to her. What parallel was that Carolyn? I'm going to make a distinction here that I don't think the Leapers probably want to make, although they have talked about this a little bit. That some of these looking ahead, playing things out, and seeing what happens kinds of scenarios—I think you could say they're on the level of entities.
[Note from Cathee: In our space clearing work, we often remove "non-soul entities," which are personality fragments. Sometimes a person's body will die, but strong parts of their personalities don't disintegrate and compost as well as they should after death. Other "entities" are very strong thoughtforms sent out from living people that have a life of their own, and can attach to and suck energy from other people.]
You know how non-soul entities seem to have some free will, and be very persuasive, but they're a little more predictable than people are. They have their momentum going, and they're probably going to continue without making a lot of stop-and-think changes. This is a quality of this plane that you're in, that when things get set into motion, it takes some conscious being making a different choice for them to not just go on. This is why you might surmise that someone with an addiction, who is usually surrounded by entities, seems to just play out that addiction, and doesn't seem to be a conscious being. You've been watching a friend's husband make the same mistakes over and over and over, seemingly without the ability to stop and say, "I want to do something different. I don't want to have sex with every woman I possibly can." Even though he's in a lot of pain, and he's losing his family for all practical purposes, he doesn't seem able to stop. You could say he's being ruled by his entities, who just keep driving him, driving him, driving him. Or you could call them subpersonalities. He's driven by his subpersonalities and can't seem to choose.
The beings like the Carolyns you have been talking to telepathically the last few days, on the trail and in the bathtub—these are thoughtforms, I would say. Much more than is the Carolyn who came to you in the backyard, and said, "You know, with all the given possibilities, I think I would choose to leap over to where you are and hang out with you guys." To me she seems like a real soul-centered person.
I know that even entities have their own point of view. But let me go so far as to compare them to us. You've seen that we of the nature realm seem to be willing at times to let members of our species die in certain circumstances and places without a lot of pain expressed about it. Sometimes you have connected with individual nature beings that you feel have very distinct personalities. You have a very deep love for certain daisies, and certain of any species you've talked to. This year, you connected with a columbine blossom that seemed to have been eaten in between your visits, and your beautiful, wise onion was obviously eaten. It's bizarre to you to lose a friend like that. And I would agree, that's poignant.
On the other hand, I do think that individual water lilies, if they get eaten, if they get moved about, or if the weather is not conducive to them flowering and going to seed very well, are much more passively accepting of the situation than humans would be. It's an experience to them. But perhaps you could say, they have the grace of not having to make a lot of decisions in their life. As the land spirit Mud says, she flows like a wave following the contours of the beach in her consciousness. I think this is how it is in the whole plant realm. We lilies represent to a lot of people the ability to just float on the waves. If someone makes a commotion in a canoe, we just kind of bounce around. We're OK. We open and flower and look beautiful no matter what happens. Unless there's a difficult situation, and then we don't. (laughs)
I think the versions of Carolyn you've been talking to are like that. They are a creation, just as any lily pad is a creation. And they have their own experience, their own focus of identity. But lilies are very predictable. If there's good soil, that's where we'll grow bigger. If there's a certain amount of water, if there's a certain temperature—you can guess how this pond is going to look a given year, once you tune into us and see what we need. Humans are by and large much less predictable, if they're conscious beings at all.
I should say here that there are some individual lily plants that are much more conscious than others. Usually by the time you're done with a visit here, you're talking to one very intensively and loving it, and it's loving you very intensely. That lily may be what you would call much more conscious than the other lilies in the whole big pond. Of which there are hundreds, depending on whether you're talking about individual flowers, individual lily pads, individual root systems—you know, it's hard to say how many there are. But in general, those particular lilies—let's say lily blooms and the plants they're attached to—in my view are not more conscious than the other lilies. But they have had a particular focus and purpose of experience in their lifetime, to interact with a human. And so they have a specialized existence, because you came along and talked to them. So they seem more conscious to a human.
Cathee: It's so peaceful here. It's gorgeous. For once, I even feel like the camera can't do justice to the feeling of floating—the peace—so I won't try too hard. The whole pond is full of a beautiful, sensitive energy of floating, and I feel it much more than if there were only one lily pad spread out.
Lily: I think that's right, Cathee.
So how do you relate to an entity? This is something you've been feeling your way through in your space clearing work. You tend to just dissolve them in bright light, which I think is appropriate. But once in a while . . . like at a restaurant one night, you had quite a conversation with one. It was trying to convince you to let it come into your body. So amusing, you know?
They are beings, just as lily pads are beings, and trees are beings. When you see someone mowing grass, it seems so incredibly unconscious. Even though it involves a whole field of grass, you feel like you are feeling the pain of each individual, as well as of the collective, especially if it's done without permission and relationship. And of course this is the norm in your society, to cut the grass and plow the fields.
So it's not like I want to discourage you for having a passion for the Carolyn entities that you have been talking to. And maybe this is why life doesn't usually give you the opportunity to talk to these beings, because most people wouldn't know who they were talking to, or how to deal with it emotionally. I mean, it's bad enough what happens in life to so many souls who do have choices, and who have gotten themselves into their own fixes.
The discussion with Carolyn was like an emotional spin-off of how horrible the parallel she was experiencing was. That's about all she talked about—"Get me out of here!" And this was a very legitimate point of view. I think why the Leapers haven't talked to you about this is because it sounds so cold and heartless. But it certainly gave them the feedback of what would happen if things went that direction on her parallel.
John was telling you that he and Johnny had their swords out like depictions of Archangel Michael, blocking you from anyone being able to come into you. Maybe that's what made me want to piggyback on that and say, it would have been entities coming into you and sticking. It would not have been Carolyn, the conscious being that you know from the backyard conversation coming in. She would be able to respond to you with a broad range of possible responses, and the ability to live a life, if she walked in.
I know this is going to add a new layer to try to understand, now, any time you are in communication with someone. For instance, what John was describing on the way up, that you were there at his death, helping him to make a decision—was that an entity of you, or was that you? I would say that was an entity of you, Cathee. I think the parallel of you that was his guide was definitely a conscious being, a soul creation. John, correct me if I'm wrong.
John: This is fascinating, lily. Please talk.
Lily: I think who showed up though, was what you might call an encapsulation of the way things were going for Cathee in the recent decisions she'd made. It gave everyone a taste of how much she was capable of flowing with Spirit, how much change she could handle, and whether she could handle a walk-in. It was like a sampling, a test, at that moment in time. If we put more salt in the soup, what would happen, you know? (laughs) If we put in a little basil. Could Cathee handle a walk-in, given where she was at, at that moment in her life?
And these are those moments, like John was talking about, of a choice point. In order for John to know at the moment of his death on that parallel "what do I want to do next?" he needed to meet Cathee, to see if the two of you resonated or not. It would be hard to know what he should choose without having Cathee right there, seeing how you resonate. That's why there are these spin-offs that show up and let you see.
Cathee: Then does that entity just fade out when it's no longer useful?
Lily: Basically, yes, if they don't fight to have a life of their own, and then possess someone. That happens sometimes. Sometimes it happens that, like for instance, your entity that met John would try to lobby your soul to go that way. That happens quite a bit, actually, if they're really strong entities, really strong creations. There's a forceful momentum going on a personality level, which I can't say I quite understand, because I'm not a human. Then they can kind of pull the whole decision-making group that direction.
Cathee, you were on a scholarship committee once, which had to decide which college kids were going to get money for independent research. And you found it scary how just a single comment by one of the faculty members could instantly sway the whole group. There was one student who didn't get a scholarship because one faculty member said she thought this woman was immature. Nobody else in the group knew this woman. Cathee, you only knew that she had made an appointment with you and then hadn't shown up. So you felt like you had to just go with that professor's knowledge of her. But if there had been a different committee without that one professor on it, she probably would have gotten the scholarship, and you knew it. It was horribly upsetting to her, because she was the only one applying who didn't get it, and she could have—there was enough money that she could have gotten a piece of the pie too. So that's the power of one voice.
Now, I'm not saying that that's what happened with you and John. Yours was a polite meeting, which is more like what your character is. Which is part of what he liked about you. He looked at your polite entity, and he thought, "I could be a walk-in to her. She's nice, you know?" So it worked fine to not be a strong personality entity. You were incredibly receptive at that point in your life, and you still are. You're actually stronger now, and more opinionated about your own life with John in you. Which is good.
So he read you, and everybody did who was in that committee meeting.
I really want you to know this. Because today Johnny was saying, look, new life, and I'm with you. We've got to make this our new life together, and not have me hanging onto the past. And then you said, I want to go hiking today. It's probably going to be the last warm day of the year. But you felt so odd that this woman was in huge distress yesterday in your bathtub with you, telepathically. So I wanted you to not feel bad that you just kind of left Carolyn today in the hands of the Lord, and decided to have at Johnny's urging a day for you, John and Johnny to get to know each other better—which I think is a great idea. You need a lot of those days. And you can't let these entities hang on you, or you'll be stressed out to the max.
Cathee: Thank you so much, lily. Is that why I felt led to come up here, so you could tell me that?
Lily: I've felt for a long time, Cathee, that you needed to understand the different levels a little better. Yes, that's why I was lobbying for you to come. And was that my entity that was lobbying? I don't think so. I think that was a pretty conscious decision on my part to lobby for you to come up here.
Cathee: It's gorgeous. You are so gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous, lily. I think you are just so gorgeous. Utterly gorgeous.
Lily: I do hope you'll share this with your audience. Yes, there is going to be an audience there, Cathee. I foresee that. Don't think I would be bothering to do this if I didn't feel like I was part of that eventuality myself.
Cathee: The sun's going down behind the clouds, but going down, down. Seems like the clouds tend to gather where the sun wants to go down. Maybe people are wanting sunsets.
Lily: There's more I want to say, so if you're warm enough, can we keep going?
Cathee: Yes. Please.
Lily: You can consider it a great compliment, actually, that the Leapers are letting you in on where to place you in the big picture of the bind these parallels are in. And letting you consciously, in a waking state—although I know it's sometimes barely waking—participate in a way that everyone does in "altered" non-waking states of consciousness. To have you talking to Carolyn's entity while awake—this is a pretty advanced function, Cathee. And for John and Johnny to do it also, in the body. They're more astrally aware than you are, but hopefully eventually they will be pretty even in their talent from physical to astral, and aware of a lot that's going on. You are more and more aware as well.
I feel that this is my specialty, to help you bridge many states of consciousness like I do. On the physical plane this is played out that not only do I have roots in the soil and I float on the surface and I bloom in the air. But you love to come here I think partly because of all the reflections on the water. My medium of water is always rippling, and you see beneath the water quite a different density than you see above the surface of the water. But the reflections of even the trees that are on land around the lake are right there in me. And then sometimes a duck paddles through. She seems gone now. She was around us a long time.
Actually, as you look at this pond right now, the reflections are almost a more saturated color than the color of the leaves catching the light on their surface. So it would certainly be possible that someone would come look at the reflections on the lake and hardly even notice the lilies. This is the way you're living now. And since it seems to be working for you to be a Leaper channeler, partly because as they said, you helped to create them through perceiving their reflections in a certain way. You are, I think, going to be increasingly called upon to try to interpret what needs to happen, in helping to determine what mass leaps happen and what small leaps happen with individuals. In helping to decide what's beautiful. One way to say it is what they've been saying all along—helping to choose the archetypes for the new age. You know, what is beautiful? What do we want? And this isn't just the Leapers trying to get off the hook themselves, in sharing the responsibility for this. It's always the way it happens at the end of an age. Those who have really lived it do get to help choose what comes next. And this is not unique to you, Cathee. The Leapers want as many people as can really be conscious and participate to do so. They've said that all along. But since you are a Leaper channeler, it's up to you to tell other people that this is what they can participate in.
So here you are. I am wanting for you to participate in this with as much joy as is possible. And I think in our alliance together, we can bring your decision-making and your perceptions of things to have as much depth and richness as possible. I would love to be a part of this with you.
You're aware that daisy's function for you has always been somewhat like that too, to look into the depths of things. And so, the alliances are not exclusive here. I love daisy too. But I'm a little frustrated that I'm only in a few places, and it's a walk up here for you, and not such a pleasant walk in the winter. I guess no flower is going to be there then for you to go to their place and talk to them, except to see the snow under which their seeds lie. But I am so grateful that you came today, and that it's warm enough that you could hang out awhile. And that John stopped talking long enough for me to talk. I'm just kidding. Thank you, John.
John: You're my ally too, aren't you?
Lily: Yes I am. Maybe I was impulsing you to say a segue to what I wanted to say. Who knows? Or vice versa.
Cathee: Lily, will it get to where I can tell the difference between an entity Carolyn and a soul Carolyn? I was sure fooled.
Lily: Not fooled. She wasn't trying to fool you. But yes, I think you can always ask. And do. Just ask.
Cathee: So, what did we decide with Carolyn?
Lily: Ooh, you want me to try to summarize that? Well, as I read you (you know I wasn't present) I think a lot of decisions were probably made in a moment about how Johnny and Carolyn would handle their new life here. He has treated you much differently since that bathtub conversation. He saw what you needed, and what he needed, really, to function as one being in relationship to Carolyn. So I think there was quite a rich plumbing of what you might call reactions, but mainly insights I'd say, about who he is now. He is not just someone who leapt over from her parallel. He is someone who leapt over and walked in. He didn't leap with his own body, even. So he is part of a threesome now. That is who he is, and I think he recognized that more than he had. So it was a very rich meeting.
Cathee: Do you think she's still coming?
Lily: I do. But I think you determined that she will need to not be totally dependent on you. And you will need to not restrict her. You all truly came to the realization that it's a new life, like a reincarnation. And he and she will have a different role together. The love will carry across, certainly, and the closeness. But it will be a different role in each other's lives than it was, which happens all the time with new lives.
So see, life kind of happens, and then it really happens. (laughs) And then it changes. Have you noticed how the reflections change about every forty seconds? There's a notable change in the reflections here as the sun moves in and out of the clouds, and the duck swims by. We don't do much changing, but the wind blows us about.
Cathee, the Leapers have alluded to it, but you are really in training to be a guide. I'm guessing that you may become more guide-like than incarnate-like to fully develop your gifts in whatever future incarnations strands of you and John end up in. I think a lot of the focus of where you're going and what you're doing in this lifetime is to become more skilled at reading different levels of what can happen, and to learn how to motivate and nudge people in certain directions, whether as a counselor or from a non-physical level. And certainly to find the words for meanings as a channeler to influence—well, in this case—directions whole parallels may take, if we can get the word out. I think this is very exciting for you. It's like you're more like me. And that's why I think I could have a very strong alliance with you now, if you wish. I am reading many levels all the time.
I have always been very active with humans. They're very drawn to me. You can see all the activity that's going on in this pond, and you know, you're not the first to have noticed. (laughs) It's like how people with ADD meditate better when walking than just by sitting and watching their breath. I think a lot of people can watch all the activity here, and yet feel the stillness under it. It seems to resonate with how the human mind and soul work, to let there be thoughts and the activity on the surface, and then here it's obvious that there's something going on in the depths that's even bigger. You might say, the pond is bigger than what's in it.
I feel fortunate in my work with humans that I tend to get people in my presence who are in a contemplative mood, if they stay and sit here very long at all. And who appreciate my beauty maybe more than people who are walking through a field of flowers, but they're busy hiking. People tend to sit here and open and reveal themselves to me, I think more than to other flowers. I feel very honored to be in this position with the humans. So I take it very seriously that often there's an opening in which I can reach in and be a guide, like is happening right now. And maybe help to influence whole parallels with you. I'm very happy to do that.
I'm very close to the Leapers too. You might say I have a knack for helping to open people up, and help them feel their own souls, which is mainly the level the Leapers work on. So I certainly don't think they mind me piping in here with my own opinions of what they should have told you by now. (laughs)
Leapers: Yes, we're very fine with it. Thank you, lily.
Cathee: The sun's about to set. I probably should head back. I am so incredibly grateful to you. Thank you so much.
Lily: Cathee, I want you to go now, and I want you to enjoy the trip back. I know daisy's waiting for you. You kind of gave her the brush-off on the way up to see me, and I appreciate that. (laughs) And I think Johnny and you need to continue your retreat together. So I want you to go. And I want you to get back to the car feeling good and warm and come back and see me soon. I love you so much, Cathee. I hope that you will come to see me as—oh dear, I'm sounding competitive—as one of your closest allies. And I hope we'll get closer and closer because I love you so much.
Cathee: I love you too. You're magical. Thank you.
But before I leave, I have one more question, lily. Do flowers ever send out entities like you've been talking about, to see if they should be a part of someone's leap?
Lily: No, generally I don't think so. We already are, like I said, more at that level. So it's not so necessary.
Cathee: OK, thanks.
Lily: Cathee, I really love having you here. You come back.
Cathee: I'm walking away from the pond, and it feels so good that I will never have to walk away from John and Johnny. They always go with me. It's amazingly wonderful, after so many difficult good-byes, to not have to say good-bye to someone. I feel incredibly lucky, anyway, that I have friends like lily. Thank you, universe.
I was so down yesterday, and I'm so up today. I feel manic depressive. Oh well.
John: Cathee, Johnny and I feel the same way. I cannot remember when I was alive feeling like there was anyone I could ever imagine wanting to be with every single minute. Our focus is not always on you, but you're always off to the side, certainly, unless I'm off visiting my Uncle Ted or something. (I'm thinking of his funeral when I was over there a lot.) But still, you go with. You're still a part of me. I think that's what lily was talking about—we're realizing we're a threesome even if we are focusing on someone from our past.
Cathee: When I was growing up, I always was in threesomes. I often had two friends in grade school, and I had two siblings. I'm kind of used to that. I mean, not like this.
Johnny: I'm still getting used to the idea. This is new for me to realize this. But I'm committed to mellowing and broadening, and realizing I don't have to be the one in control and command. I am not going to be Commander in Chief of this threesome, that's for sure. You guys would never allow that anyway. But I just want to say, I'm committed to it. It's wild. I agree with John that never in my wildest dreams did I think I would . . . well, especially after Al was in my body, you know, that was pretty close. But it wasn't close, it was very isolating. So (laughs) all three Musketeers, I guess.
Cathee: I hope twenty years from now we'll still feel the same way, but I think we will. I think it'll be richer. I love you. I love you, love you, love you.
I'm wondering, and I don't know who can answer this. Maybe lily's still with me. Did Carolyn learn something from putting out those entities the last few days? I'm curious about what she's learned and decided.
Carolyn: Well, Cathee, if this is my soul, and not my entities (laughs)—I'm not sure if even I know who's talking. But some part of me is here.
Cathee: You feel very peaceful, very different. So I would guess so.
Carolyn: Yes. At the soul level people feel peaceful.
Since you asked . . . am I snooping on you now, to be able to tell you? I mean, you did call me in? What I'm seeing today is so much more attractive to leap into than what I saw before, with the entities. With the extensions of myself. I like the word extensions of myself better. Entities—yuck. But, whatever.
I'm feeling hopeful having explored some more here, that we'll not manifest the scenario in a solidified form that the Leapers were looking at—of HAARP being turned on as a response to political chaos, freezing time. Cathee, part of what happened last night was, you started playing with how we can get the Leaper book to these people. You decided in the middle of a sleepless night to not hold out for a publisher, since my parallel can't get ahold of your hard books easily. In fact, it would take a miracle. Electronic is easier, because there doesn't have to be a warehouse and all that. I think you realized you need to put as much Leaper material as fast as you can on the web. I think what playing out that scenario did, if I can be so bold as to say for you, was to make you more determined to reach more people with this material. It's good.
I think what I learned . . . this seems kind of touchy. Well, first of all that if I come over, it really would be a new life, the same as you guys have been thinking. And I saw, much more than I've been thinking, that I will be a nobody in your culture compared to who I am here. I can have a certain amount of influence on your culture by proving that the leap happened. And it's not like in my culture I'm not trivialized by the news media anyway—but not quite as bad as John was, for instance.
When I say "I," I'm not even sure whether it's I, or me and the Leapers, or this whole committee. I don't even know how to talk about this, because I don't know who "I" am talking to you right now. (laughs) I feel like I'm Carolyn, but I feel like I'm part of the whole Leaper complex decision-making body. I'm we. I'm part of we right now.
And you're asking, since I have my own soul family, am I an honorary part of yours? Is it complex, this we? No, it's not. It's just whoever is relevant to my life and the leap that I'm contemplating. I want to say I'm committed to it. But when we're working out what my role will be in your culture on your parallel, and whether any of us will even stay there very long . . . I hope not.
So that's the other factor. Is it worth it? I think part of what my question has been is, is it worth it? It's going to take a whole lot of preparation and adjustment. Are there better ways to accomplish the same end than to have Carolyn come over, despite the fact that I know John and Johnny totally love me, and I think you do too, and want to get me out of there. (laughs) That was an interesting state to be working with—the total panic that that split-off of me was in. Entity. Whatever.
Maybe we discovered that she was in such a state that she wouldn't have accomplished much if she'd come over in that state. (laughs) You would have all been rehabilitating her. And so I don't think we're going with that scenario. I think what we're wanting now, if I can read what's happening here, is to try to get me out and over and take a lot of people who are going to leap with me, before things get that bad. And there are a variety of ways that can play out. I think . . . and yes, Cathee, I know you have to get some pictures here. (laughs) That is a really pretty scene you got there.
I don't want to scare you, but I feel as I speak like I'm such a part of your little sub-we that it would be easy to walk in. (laughs) That's where the party is. Now, don't be scared, but it seems like you're having a good time. I don't think that's what we decided, though, yesterday.
Cathee: Good, it's too dark for the camera to work. (laughs) We'll get some channeling done.
Carolyn: Oops, she changed the setting. She can take them a little longer.
So part of the question is, when people are in that state of panic, can we even pull them out? I think we might have discovered that the answer to that is no. Even with someone like me, who had studied the Leaper material and was asking to leap—in that moment talking to you, I think I would have been hard to leap.
Now on the trail last week, it felt like it was happening, actually. And I think we did take a step there towards me actually leaping. But in the bathtub yesterday, it was kind of ridiculous. That was definitely like what lily said it was—a dress rehearsal before the play, to see if you want the play.
What we worked out last night . . . and Cathee, you just caught glimpses of it in your sleep. I mean, when you awoke. But you were tossing and turning all night, looking out at the stars. It was such a warm night that you left the curtains open, and you kept looking at the stars as if we were all in a decision council sitting out there. Which I guess is as good a metaphor for the Leapers as anything. The night sky. The galaxy. The universe.
We decided to try to get me out sooner. I'm the one on my parallel who is using my role model status to influence people to leap. But what will I be on your parallel? And by the way, you're all looking at me like, well, am I still coming even if it really is a new life, and Johnny and I won't be like married any more, and. . . . You know, folks, I knew that. I knew it would be a lot different. I would hope it would be a lot different, or I'd be totally frustrated if didn't want to be a lesbian, for one thing. And I don't. Case closed there. (laughs) It doesn't mean I don't love Cathee.
So what will my role be on your parallel? From my perspective, it seems bigger on my parallel what I need to do by leaping just to show it can be done, than what I could do on your parallel once I arrive. I still have a lot of qualms. And maybe we'll work out some of those scenarios in playacting. By playacting I mean, if you could just visualize and daydream about me coming in and what work we can accomplish on your parallel. Although, Cathee has such low self-esteem she can't imagine accomplishing anything. So, Cathee, you just bow out and let the men do this kind of daydreaming. But I think we're all kind of stuck on the idea that we all want out of your parallel too, the minute I get there. And there are also a lot of details, like it makes sense for me to leap after Johnny dies, but before the chaos. And I'm not sure that would logically ensue. When would I have the opportunity?
The Leapers have a big job. I admire them tremendously. And we do too, in performing our role as icons of culture. I doubt that it's this difficult—although I don't know—to work out an individual life, if that individual is not, number one, trying to influence the whole culture, and number two, a big public figure, like three out of four of us here are. And thank goodness there's one who isn't, who can keep us humble.
If you're wondering what I'm personally feeling, not just what was decided or explored or needs more exploration—I have so many mixed feelings. It may take a bathtub session with me, with the real thing, to try to even get a handle on them. I'm very nervous that I do feel not so much a jealousy that Johnny's in love with Cathee. I would hope so, if you're going to be the same person. But that by the time I get there . . . you guys are becoming so strong, and you're kind of exclusive in that you share the same body and I won't. I'm kind of joking and kind of serious that it looks like that's where the fun is, in that body right now. Now, once we get going, and you guys won't have much time to relate to each other—you'll just have to act as one if you get busy—maybe it won't seem that way so much. But I do feel loved by you. I mean, that isn't a question.
I'm feeling really good that you asked, Cathee, and that I'm included in not just the Leapers' group discussions, but that you are reaching out to me now. Whatever happens, it's not going to be easy, I know that. This is kind of like deciding, well, how big a calamity do we need? Do we get her out during or after it? But it's still not a good parallel, let's put it that way. That's why I'm leaping. And you know how that feels, except that you're walking in a beautiful forest, which I haven't done for years. And it's not because I'm anti-nature. It's because we don't have 'em, I mean that are natural. Even our public lands are just not worth being out in.
I'm scared. I'm very scared. And that's not just a subpersonality talking. I'm terrified, in fact. And sometimes I think you are too, all of you, even though you're soul entities as well, and not subpersonalities talking. But I do think that sometimes acts of heroism come out of crises. Some people who were in the 1960's civil rights movement, when John's dad was president, look back at that as the most exciting time of their lives. Everything else seems a little pale in comparison. So the tough stuff isn't necessarily the least meaningful, or exciting, certainly.
And Jackie has told you that she just knew what to do after the assassination. She said it was like playing a role in a play—she already knew the script somehow. I've been thinking about that too, listening to lily. Maybe she was referring to these council meetings. She could remember the decisions being made, and knew what to do. So let's decide well what I'm going to be doing.
My preference would be to leap right now, to a much better place than you guys are in. (laughs) Book or no book. People coming with me or not. That would be my preference. I don't think that choice was given me, though. So the four of us, and I'm sure many others, are very much in this together. And you know, guys, we have been for a long time. We're getting conscious to the process right now, but I'm sure we probably took part in these discussions before. I'm talking from my astral essence level here. I'm sure that we all conferred before Johnny was cloned. I guess I'll call you Johnny now too, since it's clearer.
You know, Cathee, you feel like he just dropped in out of the sky, but he really didn't. I'm sure we had conferences before. Sometimes you can only see a step, and then do it, and then see from there. Kind of like chess. You see what the next step is once you see what else happens.
Anyway, I'm grateful. I need your love. I need the love of all three of you. I need the love of the three of you together. I do think I'm coming. It almost feels to me like that has been set in motion so much that we're working out the details now of how to come, but we're not working with the question of whether for me to leap. And I appreciate, Cathee, you realizing that death is not all that bad, and that the Carolyn you talked to in the bathtub was probably as scared about leaping as she was about what was happening on her parallel. It would be a lot easier to die, let's put it that way.
The adventurer in me says, well if Johnny can do it, I can do it too. He's always been a step ahead of me in what he's willing to take on. So I bow to you, King Johnny, and say if you're going to send me into a leap, OK. My Commander in Chief (laughs). I'm poking fun, just because he acts that way sometimes, (laughs) but I'm sure the Leapers would not let him determine that.
There is an element, though, of daring. Of, am I going to be stretched to my very limits with the risk of. . . . Because even though we plan this stuff out, it always has spontaneous elements to it. And it's like, do you stretch yourself to the very limit, or do you take a more reasonable approach? But I think the times obviously dictate that something needs to happen that's pretty drastic and dramatic. And so I guess for those of us that are Kennedys, it often falls to us to lead the way in the department of courage. Cathee, you have tremendous courage as well. I might as well consider you a Kennedy. Here we go.
The more I'm talking, the more nervous I'm getting. But I did want to answer your question, if this was implied in the question, that yes, I do still think I'm coming. When? You know, we're still playing with this. But let's work on the website, and maybe this conversation will be part of it.
Cathee: This is good. Why didn't we have this conversation a long time ago? I guess I didn't know I could talk to you this easily, Carolyn.
Carolyn: Yeah. I think we've formed a very tight subgroup of we. We are really gearing up. And Cathee, you were fighting this Leaper material for a long time, thinking people would ridicule you or something. I think it took Johnny coming over to wake you up a little bit. I think that was an excellent decision from what I can see over here, Johnny leaping and walkin' into you, Cathee. It's worked out even better than anybody thought it would. Like John said, you did amazingly well with it. And I hope Johnny's having a good time. I think he is.
Cathee: I know you don't know the answer to this, but it's kind of mind-boggling for me. I know Johnny is in my reality, in my time/space continuum. He's here, I'm sure of that. And yet we're talking about what's going to happen to you, Carolyn, within days of his walking into me. And yet, that hasn't been determined. I'm pretty confused. Well, really we're talking about what's going to happen even before Johnny walks into me, whether the Leaper material will be more widespread in your culture. So, do I just need to get used to this? Or is there some way I can understand it better?
Carolyn: I don't know how many parallels Johnny split off in HAARP, and their taking over of his power. Obviously he and you are in the parallel where he got cloned, and it's going from there on.
Cathee: I'm curious whether HAARP is the same on your parallel.
Carolyn: Yes, but it's seen differently by most people. Unfortunately, it's seen as more OK, as having some good uses. With weather control—I think Johnny talked to you about that. People don't expect natural weather.
You're right, Cathee. It's very mind-boggling.
Cathee: It reminds me of looking at those lily pads, and the reflections changing all the time. Like, where do you look?
Carolyn: Yeah, it is kind of like that. You find that you need to just focus in one place. And maybe that's what you do with your camera. You were trying to focus in just one perspective on the pond there.
Cathee: Is Johnny walking into me part of the dress rehearsal, and we don't know it, and that isn't solid? Maybe this whole thing is a dream.
Carolyn: Well, if it is, I'm in it. And it's more solid to me than the bathtub experience. That's all I know.
Cathee: Carolyn, I just want to say I think you're really cool. Every time I talk to you, I have more admiration for you. So I'm really looking forward to meeting you in the body. And I'm thrilled to think that could happen.
Carolyn: Thank you. I need to hear that. I really need to hear that every day. 'Cause I'm scared. I'm really scared. I don't know if I can handle this emotionally. The pain. I may be a total wreck when I come. And I have to just trust that you won't get bored with me, and go on to the next thing. That I'll be a major project in your life. I don't know what shape I'm gonna come in. I don't know who I'll be by the time they leap me. So I need to hear continually that you love me.
Cathee, I feel like my closeness to Johnny is not going to be a problem, and maybe there's something we can all learn through this. You know that the love carries through between lifetimes in reincarnational jumps that you do with people. But the role doesn't always. I'm very aware of that.
I think you can tell, we shared power. We both had a lot of influence on mass culture, especially. People associated us together—they thought of us as being a couple. Maybe it's just because they followed the Kennedys so closely in their personal lives that they wanted him to marry a cultural icon, and so they made me one. (laughs) I didn't come to it pre-made. But they for some reason really see the two of us together.
Anyway, I feel like I had a lot of influence, and together we had tremendous influence. I'm speaking past tense, aren't I? Well, it kind of is. So I think that aspect of the past parallel is something that truly could carry through, and Johnny and I could still have tremendous influence together. But that involves you and John now. I don't mind that so much, because you know, how many women don't wish that their husbands would suddenly develop a feminine side to themselves? A woman's intuition and caring. I think he's finding his way now that he's walked into you. See, I do observe a lot of what's going on in your life. Just like you could mine. You have a full essence too, Cathee, who's trying to understand many things, and is over here talking to me. And I think she's mainly who I'm talking to right now, even though you're physically holding this recorder. We're working this out, understanding each other.
Cathee: I think you're right, Carolyn.
Wow, I felt like I was channeling myself right then when I said that. It just came through. Interesting.
Carolyn: Johnny is no longer Commander in Chief, in many meanings of the word. And actually, I think it could be a very interesting change in him. If we're talking about coming up with new archetypes for the new era, certainly androgyny is one. Or balance. And you're doing it, bringing male and female together in one person, which is pretty amazing. That right there is a strong archetype for the new era—that you're three in one. And you're actually two men and a woman in a woman's body. So it kind of helps to balance things, I guess.
I feel like hopefully, if we do this right, the best of what Johnny and I have in terms of that closeness . . . I feel like it already is carrying over, Cathee. I feel very close to you. And besides your fear that I'll be jealous or something, I haven't felt you pushing me away at all.
The Leapers are being incredibly creative at dreaming all this up. And I'm very interested in where it could go.
I'm really hoping I'm not losing a husband—I'm gaining a close female friend. And Cathee, just in having this conversation with you, right this minute, I feel like you're my close female friend.
I'm making it sound like I'm looking forward as much to seeing Cathee as I am to seeing Johnny. And of course, that's not true. I'm totally in love with Johnny. But every relationship has different aspects. Your guides have talked about that, and maybe John was one of your guides who said it. That even in your relationship with Peter, you know, you're friends, you're lovers, you were sometimes guides for each other in past lives—you're all sorts of roles. But there's a closeness. I know this is going to be a huge change for me, and I'm probably not going to be much like the Carolyn I've been. In some ways, that's fine, because it's been a very lonely time in the White House. And before that, in the Senate. I wasn't in the Senate, but you know what I mean. I guess your parents lived that too, that lack of friendship, because of their leadership role. You think, well, I'm going to be able to do it differently, but then you get there and you can't.
You've mentioned that you're pulling away from people now yourself, and towards new ones. I think that's natural. And I think it's very natural that you would be looking at me as a best friend who's so involved in this with you. I mean, my gosh. Who else could understand? You have my husband in you! Who could understand better what that's probably like? Isn't that bizarre? It's bizarre, but in a way, it's kind of wonderful. What an in, huh? What an easy understanding and possible closeness between us. I mean, I feel close to you now.
Something Peter and I will have in common is sharing that "how do we relate to Cathee-John-Johnny?" Well, I think sometimes we're going to probably be the ones keeping your sanity, to tell you the truth. And I like the evenness of you having Peter, and Johnny having me as the close person with their own body. I really do see you, Cathee, as Cathee-John-Johnny, and I really see him in you, even though you're female. It may feel a lot different when I'm actually looking at this female body. But it's intriguing. It's like some movie you'd go to and be entertained by, but you would never believe it was real. I'm so curious. Maybe it's curiosity that's really going to bring me over more than anything, if I can get past the fear. I'm really curious what this motley crew of us can accomplish even on your parallel. And certainly on mine.
Cathee: It's dusk. There's a clear sky, so not much sunset. It's really beautiful. We just crossed the river. We're almost back to the car. Anything else?
Carolyn: Well, I guess one more thing. I guess I'm talking specifically to Cathee here, mainly, in everything I've said. I want you to think in terms of you and I having our own relationship, even though you're three-in-one with Johnny, and he's real close to me. There is no privacy, I know that, but you and I will have our own friendship, our own beauty. I'm really looking forward to that.
Cathee: I am too, Carolyn. I really, really am. You're beautiful. You're just wonderful, and I'm extremely happy you're coming.
Johnny: Carolyn, I just want to tell you that I adore you. And I always have, and I always will. I think you're incredibly mature in everything you just said, and I'm so proud of you. I can hardly wait for you to come. Maybe you'll be totally different, who knows, but I do think the love is going to be there. And that's all we need to get by, and to do our thing for the world. I love you so much. So much, baby. I just miss you so much. Come soon.
from Choice Point Negotiations to:
Part Two of the Parallel Worlds Leap Manual
Intro to Parallel Worlds Leap Manual
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